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Seisiuneer

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 #1 
Hey, if any of you beat me to the punch and pick up an iPad 2 and install the SqueezeBox apps, please let me know how it goes! 

As just a lowly accordion app developer, I don't get any sort of early access to hardware, so I'm in the same boat as the users as far as testing on new devices. I get to pay full retail on launch day like anyone else. Gotta love Apple!

What I'm expecting is that the apps should function identically to the original iPad version, with the only issue being the iOS4.3 clicking noise issue that I'm addressing in the next update.

If someone gets the iPad 2 tonight or over the weekend and tries the SqueezeBox apps, and things are completely messed up, or the app just crashes, please let me know ASAP via email at:

seisiuneer@gmail.com

and I'll have to head down to the Apple Store and get one immediately for testing/debug.

Thanks,

Michael


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 #2 
Michael, you got  me going, with Ipad, I just bought one, I don't know a dam thing about this modern equipment but I will learn fast. Military Active or Retiree can get it for 489.00 at the Army Air Force exchange on line.
So the heck with accordion, I want to learn to play bag pipe (Gaita) In honor of the BATALLION SAN PATRICIO, SAINT PATRICK BATALION.
VIVA IRLANDA
 !!!!!EIRE GO BRAGH!!!!!!



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Seisiuneer

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 #3 
Well, there is this:

http://www.tradlessons.com/Bagpipes.html

:-)


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 #4 

Thanks Michael


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joseangel

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 #5 

Hi mike I decided to get and ipad just to have your accordions app and I really like them. I just having some problems with the hohner-mini app, because some buttons sound alone like if with out pressing them, also if I push notes in it drags the note and play with the otjher note pulling. I mean it makes the in and out sound at the same time. also I do not know if that is how it is but only one switch works with the regular three row scales the other two change the system. But all the other works jut perfect. Thank you so much.

Seisiuneer

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 #6 
Joseangel,

Is this on iPad 1 or 2? I've never seen any of the behaviors you're describing on any device so far, so I'm concerned!

Is it that you have the other iPad SqueezeBox apps but are having an issue just with the Mini version when run on the iPad? It was hard to tell from the way your message was worded.

I'm curious, why are you using the mini version on the iPad? You should instead be using the Hohner-GCF app on the iPad. The may be issues with the mini app on the iPad, particularly if your fingers slide or touch outside the smaller iPhone area, even at 2X zoom, since my app won't receive events it needs to know when buttons are released.

If you are on an iPad 2, I'd be happy to send you a code for a free copy of the Hohner-GCF app.

Thanks,

Michael

Seisiuneer

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 #7 
It has been impossible to get an iPad 2 to test the apps on, and in general developers don't get any early access to hardware.

If anyone has an iPad 2 and tried the apps, please send me a message and let me know how it went, I'd be most appreciative!

In the mean time, I'm hoping to get one for testing, but it may be a month or... longer given the current wait time.  If there are any issues, I promise to do my best to address them.
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 #8 
DAMN BEST BUY IS SOLD OUT!!

I WENT ON SUNDAY TO GET ONE HERE IN LA CA MONEY IN HAND. HE WAS GONNA GIVE ME A PAPER TO FILL OUT AND LEAVE A $100 DEPOSIT. PLUS THERES WAS A WAIT OF I DONT KNOW HOW LONG AFTER THAT.

"YOU DONT HAVE ANY IN STOCK?"

-"NO"

-"ALL BESTBUYS ARE OUT?"

- "YES"

-"NO DEAL THEN, THANX!"

HE SAID "WE DONT HAVE ANY IN STOCK. WE SOLD OUT IN THE FIRST HOUR"

DAMN!! I GUESS I HAVE TO WAIT. 

FYI...
I SAID BEST BUY CUZ I HAVE A GIFT CARD FROM THERE. IT WILL PAY FOR MORE THAN HALF OF THE IPAD 2.

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Skweezboxmaniac

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 #9 
Your safest bet if you want an iPad 2 is to just order it from the Apple website.  (I know that doesn't help Bigdre and his gift card ).  Apple's website and retail outlets will always be the first to refill stock.  Though even the site is about a month out.  The retail stores will have stock trickling in every week, but the stores are like zoos (except without the cages).  If that's your sort of thing than that's cool, but you'll have to drop by the store every week at least. (calling doesn't usually help because by the time you get there, they are probably gone).

Best Buys/Walmarts/Targets only got like 10-15 iPad 2s on launch day...so the claim of "selling out in the first hour" is accurate, if slightly embellished.  I wouldn't expect those places to get any for another month as well.

There's always buying one of the ridiculously (hilariously?) overpriced examples on eBay which take advantage of our poor, socially manipulated brethren of questionable intelligence and large bank accounts. 

(not! )

So basically it's either act like a crazy person by running to the Apple store every few days or just order one from the Apple site and have it delivered to your door in 4-5 weeks with no stress.

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 #10 

id rather wait... the gift card has been sitting there since december, it can sit there another month or two.

 


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joseangel

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 #11 

Hi mike I'm sorry for my bad English. I have ipad 2 and I have hohner gcf and bbebab melodeon c#d and hohner-mini I have problems only in the hohner-mini. Any questions fell free to ask and I will try my best to answer.

joseangel

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 #12 
Mike I noticed that the problem is only in two buttons the ones that drag the sound in and out and make the two sounds at the same time.  The second and third buttons of the first line, counting the line that is closed to the grill as the number 3. The buttons  that get stuck are the firts of each line only if you slide your finger all the way from the left to the right . For example slide your finger from right to left in the G line and the first button from the left get stuck. and the same with the C and F lines. I hope I'm not confusing you more. I have to say that I downloded the hohner-mini app for free. Thank you so much. may be it was intended for iphone or ipod if tha is the  case then  it is my mistake.
Seisiuneer

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 #13 
Hi Joseangel,

Thank you so much for the news about the iPad 2 apps working OK! I can't tell you how relieved I am to hear that considering how many things Apple broke with the 4.3 iOS release.

I'm not worried about how the Mini app runs on the iPad, it really is primarily for the iPhone and iPod Touch. I will look into what is going on with the Mini app on the iPad 2 when I get one. The behavior you are seeing with the sliding off is because of how Apple handles touch events when iPhone apps are run on the iPad and isn't something I'm too worried about.

If there are any of the other iPad SqueezeBox or Melodeon apps you'd like to have, just let me know and I'll send you codes you can use for a free copy.

I very much appreciate your letting me know about the iPad 2 and the Hohner apps. This sort of thing can be very stressful and I've lost a lot of sleep worrying until now.

Cheers and thanks,

Michael


Neil

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 #14 
There's an article in the New York Times that may be of interest to some of you with tips on how to get your hands on an iPad 2. 


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 #15 
Ha.. All the buzz over where/how to get an iPad, supply shortages, people paying $1500-$2000 on eBay, etc....

I just walked into Wal-Mart a couple hours ago (for something else actually), and there they were.  I picked up a white WiFi 32GB.  I was the only one in the electronics dept besides maybe two other customers and the Wal-Mart person. 

Haven't had time to play with it yet, but I'll report back when I do.


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Skweezboxmaniac

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 #16 
New iPad is great.

The SqueezeBox apps load way faster....like after the splash screen where you press the arrow button the accordion loads instantaneously.

But in some heavy playing (pressing 3-4 buttons together and playing fast) I noticed a note will hang.  It won't hang indefinitely...it stops after a couple seconds, but on the first iPad I never noticed this happen.  It happens on all the apps.

Other than that, everything is good so far.

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betochas

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 #17 
I noticed the same thing thing.  Very similar to when the notes would get stuck on the mini gcf iphone app a few weeks ago before the update.
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Seisiuneer

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 #18 
I'll have to get my hands on one and see what's changed with the multitouch interaction with the app and sort this out in the next few weeks. The issue on the mini isn't related to a stuck note issue on the iPad 2. The iPad 2 is a lot faster, and that alone probably surfaces issues that simply didn't occur before. Probably some little thing I just never saw before. The absolute hardest thing in these apps is how to track multiple buttons all moving together at the same time...  Thanks for the update! 

If you ever get a stuck note, generally either toggling the bellows, touching the same note again, or just sliding your fingers over the button board will clear the issue.  Again, I'll spend some time on it when I get an iPad 2.


Seisiuneer

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 #19 
Hi Skweezboxmaniac and Betochas,

I'm heading off to the San Diego Apple Store in about an hour to see about getting an iPad 2.

Would you mind trying an experiment for me?  Launch the Hohner app and touching a button, slide your finger off the screen towards the bottom row of buttons.

Now rotate the iPad so the whole instrument display flips over and do the same thing.

I'm interested if the button stick condition occurs in either case. If it does, then its similar to the iPod Touch 4 status bar issue.

There's a long-term issue with iOS having to do with slides that either go off screen or move into where the status bar would have been, and the issue has been different depending on if the device is an iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch. I'm betting that this is related to some change they did for iPad 2. If I can get my hands on one today, I can start to figure this out.

Thanks!

Michael

Seisiuneer

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 #20 
OK, was able to pick up an iPad 2 at the Apple store about 10 minutes ago so I'll get to testing later this weekend.  There was already a line of 60 people there apparently since 5 AM (I got there at 9, the store opens at 10) , and the only reason I was able to get one was that someone in front of me had second thoughts...

It's such a scam, really, Apple splits the revenue from the apps with me, and I give it right back to them, there is no discount for developers on hardware.  :-)
Seisiuneer

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 #21 
Hi Skweezboxmaniac and Betochas,

I am definitely seeing the issue when aggressively sweeping multiple fingers around the button board, the same problem doesn't occur nearly as often on the iPad 1.

It will take me some time to figure out first what is going on, and then how to fix it. Right now, I have no idea what is happening, or why it happens so easily on the iPad 2.

At that point, once I have a tested fix that works on both the iPad 1 and iPad 2, I'll submit a new update to Apple.

It will take about a week after that for the new version to get approved by Apple, so I'm targetting April 15th for a new version modified for the iPad 2 to hit the streets.

Thank you for your patience!

Now, if we can just keep Apple from "fixing" anything else. :-)

Michael
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 #22 
Thanks for the update Michael.

I'm surprised that there are still lines for these things at the stores.  I was at our local Apple store and it was the usual zoo inside, but no lines for iPads.  Not sure if they had them in stock or not.  I was there to get my new Macbook Pro. (yay!... sold the old one to Pops )

Anyway... looking forward to the fix.  Good luck.

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betochas

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 #23 
Thanks for the update Michael.
Please check your private messages when you have a second.

Thanks

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Seisiuneer

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 #24 
Now that I was able to buy an iPad 2 for testing, I spent some time this morning and over the weekend starting to try to track down the iPad 2 "sticking note" issue.

Nothing so far jumps out as an obvious problem in any of my code so I'm still digging.

Apple fundamentally broke some very fundamental things in the OpenAL audio APIs in iOS 4.3 that I use which is causing many developers problems with their music apps. It wouldn't surprise me if there are some new issues on iPad 2 because of it having a much faster dual core processor and more memory that I'm going to have to work around if if the problem isn't in my code.   Wouldn't be the first time I've had to work around an issue Apple wouldn't fess up to.

Whatever it ultimately turns out to be, it's going to be interesting tracking it down.  I'll provide more status as soon as I have any new information.



Seisiuneer

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 #25 
Here's a question for y'all...

Currently you can put multiple fingers (up to 10) down on the button board and slide them all together. 

I'm considering a fundamental change in the interface to make things more reliable and faster that would require removing the ability to slide between buttons.

Not saying that's necessarily how it's going to go down, but just wanted to solicit your thoughts, because its looking more and more like there may be a timing issue in Apple's most recent audio code for iPad and iPad 2 related to the rapid multi-sample switching during button slides.

I think getting rid of sliding might make things a lot more robust and faster, but wanted to get your feedback.  You would play and release the buttons like a real instrument, but would not be able to slide your fingers from one button to another and have it stop playing on the button being moved off and then start playing the button being moved to. You would have to remove your finger from the screen and then touch the new button to get it to sound.

This doesn't seem to be as much of an issue on the iPhone/iPod Touch versions (not sure why), this would only apply to the iPad and iPad 2 versions.

Again, just an idea, really want your feedback as I'm having to deal with issues Apple has created with this last iOS release, there may be some tradeoffs that have to be made.

Michael
betochas

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 #26 
Correct me if I'm wrong forum members but it seems that "sliding" would be desirable. I know that on a real box you can slide up and down the buttons without having to lift your fingers so it would be cool to be able to keep doing it on the apps.
If this is the only way to correct the problem, we would need to see what is of more value, notes that don't stick or not being able to slide.
I'm just a beginner so most of what I'm saying comes from observing other people play.
Please guys, let's give Michael the feedback he needs so he can continue improving these wonderful apps. It's very rare for developers to reach out to the community which they develop for to solicit feedback so let's let him know what is important to us.

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Seisiuneer

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 #27 
OK, good news everyone, no need to get rid of sliding, it had nothing to do with the root cause of the problem.

I finally made some real progress tonight and its as I expected, the stuck notes definitely appear to be the result of some new undefined behavior between two layers of Apple low level audio software and not in my code. It's almost definitely an internal Apple buffer synchronization issue between their implementation of OpenAL and their low level Audio Units engine. 

When I tell OpenAL to stop playing a sound buffer, at that time I'm supposed to be able to release the memory for those buffers. Unfortunately, there is some undefined latency between when OpenAL stops the sound playback and the control gets passed down and takes effect in the lower level audio layers in the OS. The lower level code holds the buffers for a while, which is the root cause of the issue. It seems the timing between these two layers has changed on iPad 2 vs. iPad, surfacing new issues that in theory, developers like me shouldn't have to be concerned with, but that's the life of a iOS developer.

I have a workaround I'm testing that involves adding settling time to sound stops before buffer release to allow Apple's OpenAL and Audio Units audio layers to sync up. I'm going to test for a few days before deciding if its robust enough to ship.  So far its doing pretty well.

I'll let y'all know how its going as I continue testing.
Seisiuneer

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 #28 
Day two of testing (i.e. playing tunes on the iPad 2 and iPad 1 with iOS 4.3.1 between tasks at my "real" job) and no stuck notes so far... 

I also always stress test the apps by treating the iPad like I'm a toddler and dragging 5 or more fingers wildly all over the board as far as I can and playing it ways that would never occur in real life.

So far I'm very encouraged!
MCALLES2

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 #29 
I'VE NEVER REALLY BEEN A FAN OF APPLE FOR SOME REASON, BUT AFTER I PURCHASED THE HOHNER SQUEEZEBOX MINI GCF APP FOR MY GIRLFRIEND'S IPOD TOUCH, I REALIZED I NEED AN IPAD FOR SOME UNEXPLAINABLE REASON...HAHA THANK YOU VERY MUCH MICHAEL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! ALSO, IS THERE A PROJECTED DATE FOR THE RELEASE OF THE HOHNER SQUEEZEBOX Mini-FBbEb AND EAD APPS? SINCE I PROBABLY WILL NOT BE GETTING AN IPAD ANYTIME SOON
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Seisiuneer

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 #30 
Hi Mario,

The Mini-FBbEb and Mini-EAD were released yesterday and available right now for $0.99 on the iTunes App Store, here's the direct links:

Mini-FBbEb:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hohner-fbbeb-mini-squeezebox/id427442838?mt=8&ls=1

Mini-EAD:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hohner-ead-mini-squeezebox/id427442895?mt=8&ls=1

Cheers and enjoy the new apps!

Michael

Seisiuneer

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 #31 
I submitted all the updates for iPad 2 to Apple today. From what I learned in the course of the debug, I was able to also make things a bit more robust for the original iPad as well.

All updates should be approved and pushed out by Apple around April 7th.

Cheers and thanks,

Michael


Seisiuneer

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 #32 
Hi y'all,

Looks like all the SqueezeBox updates I did for iPad 2 are finally making their way out of Apple this morning, so please look for them as free updates on the iTunes App Store in the next day or two. 

The fixes also should make things a little faster and more reliable on iPad 1 as well.

Cheers and thanks,

Michael


Skweezboxmaniac

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 #33 

Thanks for the fix Michael.... can't wait to try it out.


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Skweezboxmaniac

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 #34 
Yup.  I can confirm, (at least on my White 32GB WiFi) that all the Squeezebox apps work like a charm once more.

Thanks!

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Seisiuneer

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 #35 
Oh thank goodness. :-)

Glad to hear it's working well on someone else's iPad 2 than just my own!

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 #36 
I bought all of these yesterday for my iPad! They're working flawlessly and they're a good way to get some practice in during work hours!
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Runner

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 #37 
Hello Michael,

Great App! 

I downloaded the update for my iPad 2 and it took care of the sticking note, but after playing this simple polka, La Baranca, I ran into a problem. The 2nd part of this polka is played in key of C (GCF) and the start is as follows: Lower single notes going out E-F-F#, then in Thirds going in, press the Lower notes EG, EG, then out same finger position going out in Thirds FA, then going in EG, then going in CE. (It didn't happen to me on the original version). 

In other words:
(E,F,F#) - Ein, Ein, F, Ein, Cin.

Where parenthesis indicates single notes, others in Thirds.

When you play that part in a relatively fast tempo the last E in Thirds going in will not play. Not always, but intermittent.

Thanks,

Robert

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 #38 
Hi Michael again,

Another problem I encountered on both the original and the update. When I'm practicing (what I know on the real accordion) on the iPad 2, the App will suddenly close, and have to restart App.

Thanks,

Robert
Seisiuneer

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 #39 
Runner, I can't recreate the issue on my iPad 2. Can you give me more details?
Seisiuneer

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 #40 
One thing, if other apps are misbehaving and using up lots of memory, that can cause issues for my apps since my samples have to be able to be loaded into memory to play. While it shouldn't be necessary, it may be a good idea to force quit some of the bigger memory hogs like Safari if you see strange issues with the Squeezebox apps.
Seisiuneer

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 #41 
Runner, I just tried the sequence you described played quickly about 100 times on my iPad 2 and it didn't once misbehave. This is what is so frustrating sometimes about iOS development.

If you do a clean reset of the device, does the app act any differently? How about if you close and reopen it? I assume you're running iOS 4.3.1 on the device, if not, you might want to update to the latest iOS version.

I can generally fix anything I can recreate, but that can be tough sometimes in these sorts of cases. I'm having to work around bugs Apple introduced in iOS 4.3, while still working on 4.2, it gets complicated.
Seisiuneer

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 #42 
Just got off the phone with Runner for about half an hour, still couldn't recreate the issue he's seeing on my iPad so I've asked him to video his playing and I hoping there is some way he's moving his fingers that is different from how I'm doing the same sequence that might allow me to recreate the problem.

This is how it goes sometimes, thanks everyone for your help and patience, I do the best I can to address any issues as they arise...
Runner

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 #43 
Hi Michael,

Here is a video of the pause on the two notes that I mentioned to you. Here is the YouTube link :


Thank,

Robert (Runner)
Seisiuneer

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 #44 
Thanks so much! I'll spend time analyzing what you are doing and see if I can recreate.
Seisiuneer

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 #45 
The touch screen is very picky about touch separation, if you use more the tips of your fingers and keep them more separate, does it happen less often? If the pads of the fibers are flat on the screen and close together the touch digitizing hardware can send bad info to the app. Not saying that's what's going on here for sure but something to be aware of when putting lots of fingers close together on any multitouch iPad app.

If I use the flats of my fingers close together, I can get the hardware to miss touches. There's nothing I can do to fix that unfortunately, it's a limitation of the digitizer hardware on the screen. When I play the apps, I use the tips of my fingers and can't get it to drop note. In the video, your fingers are very flat on the screen, that could be a real problem for the screen hardware.

The crash you ran into has me more concerned... The two issues could be related.
Runner

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 #46 
It seems like the separation does not have anything to do with it. I did separate my fingers and made sure they were not touching each other and still did the pause.

You might have said something, and I think I know what you mean. Ok, I am pressing with the tips of my fingers, but I tried to not press on it to hard and try to be lighter on my fingers and I couldn't recreate it until my fingers got a little heavier. (pressing slightly a little harder). Anyway, I think you know what I mean. That pattern, I tried it all over the accordion App and I can recreate it if I play it like my normal finger weight. Maybe I just need to be lighter on my fingers on that pattern.
Seisiuneer

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 #47 
Interesting! My apps really push the limits of the hardware, so it doesn't surprise me. I saw similar issues when I did the Bagpipes apps, they tend to play with flat fingers, which drove the screen crazy!

I'll keep checking out the video about the crash you encountered.
Seisiuneer

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 #48 
Interesting! My apps really push the limits of the hardware, so it doesn't surprise me. I saw similar issues when I did the Bagpipes apps, they tend to play with flat fingers, which drove the screen crazy!

I'll keep checking out the video about the crash you encountered.
betochas

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 #49 
Runner,
I'm not sure if it's just the glare but on the video it almost looks like there is some sort of plastic screen protector on your iPad.
2 questions:
1. is that the case?
2. Michael, could that along with the finger positioning be the culprit?
I realise that it's not likely, I've had numerous iOS devices with and without screen protectors and the protectors have never caused any screen issues but there's always a SLIGHT possibility.
Just an observation.

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Runner

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 #50 
betochas,

Before I brought this up with Michael, I made sure the problem I showed/explained in the video was with no kind of protector. Your right on the video, the glare is of a thin plastic cover that it came with. I can easily remove it and put it back. But the problem is there with no protective cover of any kind. Good observation.

Thanks
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