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JesusRDZ

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 #1 
Actualización para todos aquellos que no pudieron ver la foto...
Reloaded photo for you all that have not seen the photo before...

Hello You All!
Hola a Todos!

I want to share with you this interesting and old picture of a musicians ensemble, it is really old, but unfortunately i do not have the date, for the instruments, the clothes, the moustache may be is from the 20´s, or 30´s, not shure, help me to research that details.

 Quiero compartir con ustedes esta interesante y antigua foto de un ensamble de musicos, es realmente antigua, desafortunadamente no tiene la fecha escrita, por los instrumentos, la ropa y el bigote quiza sea del los 20´s o 30´s, no estoy seguro, ayudenme a establecer esos detalles.

The Picture is from the "Concepcion del Oro, Zacatecas" Area, i found it between other old pictures (20´s to 90´s).

 La foto es del Area de Concepcion del Oro, Zacatecas, la encontre entre otras fotos antiguas de la epoca de los 20´s hasta los 90´s.
Is it an OLD Bajosexto? Is It an OLD 8 Strings Guitar? The other instrumentos are a "Mandolina, Bandolon, Flauta, Violin".
Es un Bajosexto ANTIGUO, Es una Guitarra ANTIGUA de 8 cuerdas? Los otros instrumentos parecen una mandolina, bandolon, flauta y violin.

I hope you enjoy this picture.
Espero les guste.

Ensamble Antiguo.JPG 


Jesus RDZ


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jaimesbajos

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Wow! This is a cool photo. It looks to me that the instrument is a twelve string, not sure if it is a bajo or just a regular twelve strings guitar. It does seam to have friction peg tuners and they are in three rows of four. Very cool photo. Thanks for posting this for us to see.

Jaime
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 #3 

Hey Timoteo that vato playing the Flute kinda looks like you que no lol.


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mariog

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 #4 

looks very similar to "los montaneses del alamo" era..

tamaulipeco

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 #5 

I was gonna say the same thing, it looks like montañeses del alamo, even though this looks more like an early MARIACHI Band....

 

Tamaulipeco


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 #6 

Well, according to one source internet source, who's URL I no longer have, Los Montañeses got together around 1884. I think it's possibe, but then who knows? By the way, the page I got this from was written by a guy from el mismo municipio in Nuevo Leon that Los Montañeses were from. I believe Villa de Satiago or something like that. Anyway, I thogut you guys might be interested in this bit of possibly true yet possibly false info. Saludos!


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elVago

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 #7 

Hello

 

By looking at the finger position the man is using seems to be a bajo sexto, plus it has the pegs.

 

but it is kind of hard to tell

 

I vote for bajosexto.

 

elVago


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JesusRDZ

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 #8 
Hi Jacinto and the other amigos

The picture is from Concepcion del Oro, Zacatecas, i have almost 300 pictures that were taken by a person in the "Presidencia Municipal" of Concepcion del Oro, and found this pictures maybe in the archives, and scanned a lot of them, not all the 300 pictures are old, but several of them are really old, i think that is from the 20´s - 30´s because in other pictures that have the date (1927, 1936) the clothes are similar, yes is a nice picture, i have had these pictures for maybe one year and i used to show it to my parents, friends... but i never stoped to count the strings on the guitars, when i counted 12 strings, wow! could be an OLD BAJOSEXTO?

The other guitar is really interesting too, i can see 7 strings, maybe is a 7/8 strings guitar.

The picture in the background, that was really a cloth like in the teathers seems to be "french style" images, very used in the "french time" of Mexico 1870-1910 aproximately, again, it is a SHAME that the date is not on the picture.

I will send the other pictures of old musicians soon, they are very interesting too. I prefer to send it in other thread, what do you all think about it?

Hasta Luego.

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 #9 

I told you.. it is Los montaneses..  dont have the date.. but it was early 1900's  not 1800's  .    Montaneses was french influence.. just like N. orleans music..     seriuosly... I think it is a bajo sexto.

johndjennings

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 #10 

Hey Jacinto -

 

What about "La Varsovienne?"  You know, "put your little foot, put your little foot."  A friend of mine from New Mexico who says her family has been there since Coronado came through, Berta Vigíl, told me when I played that for her that it was a tune that was always played at parties in her neighbood and that there was a special dance to it that she showed us. But they had a different name for it "pan something."  I can't remember the name, but it started with "bread."  That's French isn't it, or at least it passed through France to Spain and Mexico?

 

Regards,

John


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elVago

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 #11 

Hello John

 

I am from northern new mexico and I remember my grandmother (may she rest in peace) teaching us la varsioliana. Where they dance in a circle and putting on foot in i guess you could then when it changes you turn to the other side and repeat. Is this what you are talking about. If it is I have never heard of it being called Pan.... To bad my grandmother is gone or I could ask her.

 

See you later

 

elVago


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johndjennings

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 #12 

Hey Mr. Vago -

 

Yeah that's exactly what she was talking about.  She lived in an Albuquerque neighborhood, but I'm pretty sure her family was from one of the northern villages.

 

- John


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JesusRDZ

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 #13 
Hola a todos de Nuevo!

Ya se fijaron que el instrumento que tiene el musico sentado a la izquierda es muy parecido al que tiene Don Martin Macias en la foto del reportaje de Gilbert?

Casi la misma posicion de los dedos!

Aqui esta una foto de Don Samuelito Lozano, el padre del corrido en Mexico, tiene una guitarrita 3/4 o "tercerola", con una posicion de los dedos otra vez muy parecida,

Usarían afinaciones similares es todos esos instrumentos? Hasta pronto!

Samuel M Lozano 001 - copia (548x800).jpg 

JesusRDZ


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JesusRDZ

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Hola a todos!

Asi fue como Don Samuel M Lozano "salvo el pellejo" al ser soldado Federal preso y listo a ser "ajusilado" por los Villistas, pero como alguno de ellos sabia que era "musiquero" se libro de las balas Villistas y con el tiempo se convirtio en el compositor de cabecera de Francisco Villa.

Esa foto es de un Disco-Documental (de los de 33 1/3 rpm de vinilo) de un compañero de trabajo, se lo tranferi a CD, viene doble el estuche para imprimir el documental con fotos, anecdotas y todo, muy cultural, lo tiene como recien comprado, de museo.

Las canciones que trae son (archivos adjuntos), muy, muy antiguas con arreglos muy sencillos, el algunas solo es la guitarra de Samuel Lozano la que acompaña.

Hasta Luego!


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tamaulipeco

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 #15 

alguna idea de donde se podria localizar este material?

 

Tamaulipeco


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elVago

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 #16 

Hello johndjennings

 

I thought the name sounded familiar. I am from Espanola NM which is about 80miles north of Alb. Anyways My grandmother used to make me and my cousins dance that song and other songs when we were younger or atleast tried to make us dance the songs. Anyways around these parts the that type of music is played with violin as the lead instrument especially if the music comes from the toas area.

 

well see you all later.


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jivaldez

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 #17 

Jacinto,

 

LA PUNITIVA.  Is the version you have by Luis Hernandez y Leonardo Sifuentes - 1929?

 

 

Jose

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Jacinto,

 

The reason I asked is because I have the version of punitiva sung by Luis Hernandez and Leonardo Sifuentes recorded on 7/16/1929.

It is part of a four cd set that has more than four hours of historic recordings made between 1904 and 1974.  Name the artist/group and it is very likely to be on one of the CDs

Back in those days the songs were so long that they were recorded in two parts.  That's the case of the version I have.  It is Punitiva parts 1 and 2.

The CDs in the set are:

1. Outlaws and Revolutionaries

2. The Francisco Villa Cycle

3. Local Revolutionary Figures

4. Post Revolutionary Corridos and Narratives.

Comes with a booklet which includes pictures of bad/good guys.

Some photos: Francisco Madero and horse-1911, Benjamin Argumedo, Luis Hernandez and Sifuentes, General Filipe Angeles, Francisco Villa and one of his wives Luz Corral de Villa, Juan Carrasco--and list goes on.

I also have the two CD set of Corridos and Tragedias de la Frontera, 1928-1937.

 

Jose

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Jacinto.....

 

I don't know if you have ever seen the history on Mariachi Vargas de Tecaltitlan, which is Mexico's most renowned mariachi....there is a Chronicle or Biography on how it began and how it was developed throughout the years.  The Mariachi did not have as many band players as they do now and they didn't have viuela in the beggining nor did they have Guitarron which is now a relevant part of the band.  If you compare the picture of this band from Zacatecas to an early Mariachi is pretty much the same, same clothes, same instruments, same general anatomical profiles, being that they are from Zacatecas which is pretty much in the Bajio/Pacific Zone where Mariachi was born, leads me to believe that it could possibly be an early Mariachi band.  By no means am I an expert on Mariachi's or any other early recording bands, but I think it could possibly be a Mariachi Band according to what I have seen.  The Mariachi was composed by 6 or 7 members, unlike today's Mariachi who has up to 25 members!!! that's alot of mouths to feed!!!

 

Tamaulipeco


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josev

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 #20 
thats my dads favorite miarachi. gilberto velo saludos every body "puro conjunto carnal"
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Jose, what is the name of that CD set?

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Charlie,

   its a Dvd that my sister bought for him in mexico its got 100 songs in it, he also has like 1 or 2  cds.

mariog

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 #23 

I AHAVE ALL THIS CORRIDOS..  W/ LOS ALEGRES DE TERAN..

I WILL HAVE TO LOOK FOR THEM.. BUT IF DO FIND THEM.. I WILL POST THE LYRICS.

jivaldez

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 #24 

Charlie,

Sorry for the late reply.  Was on a business trip to Chile. Number 18 to see!!

 

Glenn is right.  Arhoolie has the cd set.

I also have Corridos & Tragedias De La Frontera.  Also by Arhoolie.

 

Jose

JesusRDZ

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 #25 
Hi you all Compadres!

Sorry Jacinto, i was with a lot of things to do during the end of the year 2005, soon i will have the disc of DON SAMUELITO LOZANO from my fellow and scan it, over the disc is a COMPLETE article on SAMUEL LOZANO with pictures and all, in SPANISH.

I wiil post it as another thread, it is curious, LA PUNITIVA (1929) version on the disc is a short one not the full version, was that long versions really played/recorded)

Be online...

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 #26 

http://www.elijahwald.com/buendia.html

 

CHECK THIS OUT GUYS.. AND GIRLS

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 #27 

Los instrumentos del ensamble son flauta, violin, mandolina, bandolon, bajo sexto y guitarra española, es un conjunto tipico de esta zona de la republica, aqui en San Luis, todavia he visto un musico ambulante en el mercado que toca el bandolon, y he visto musicos como de 70 o mas años de edad con unos bajo sextos viejisimos que tienen minimo unos 50 años de construccion, si quieren darse una vueltecita para aca y veran los instrumentos de los musicos viejos.

 

Saludos a la banda

jadssr40

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 #28 

In reference to the "put your little foot" song.  I remember my grandmother and grandfather taught us the song in Spanish and it went like this:

 

Con el pan de maiz

Con el pan de maiz

Con el pan de maiz sin sal

 

Then it was repeated.

 

After that it had a chorus but I don't remember it.

 

Many, many moons ago.


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 #29 
I vote bajo sexto, it looks like the top strings are thicker than a guitar's. Its pretty neat how they designed the headstock with the peg style tuners in the middle. I had never seen anything like that before.

Mr. alberto Macias has an old picture in an album of a double neck bajo. I think its half bajo sexto and half guitar. I think maybe his dad built it. The picture looks like its from the 40's or 50's. the next time I go up there I'll see if I can snap a picture of it and post it.

Does anybody have any old pictures of bajos?

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 #30 
OK... I know this thread was posted a very long time ago... but I am very curiouse as to what this photo looks like.  I can not view it on my end and am assuming it may have been deleted during a system backup/reboot.

Gilbert, would you have any luck digging it up on your back up drives?

Or does anyone eles have a copy?

Thanks....


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untejano12

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 #31 
In reference to La Varsovianna... I too remember my Grandmother singing it to my younger siblings..Her version went like this..Varsovianna Varsovianna quien te trajo aqui...yo solita yo solita vine a dar aqui...And I don't remember the rest. My grandmother(maternal). was from Guadalupe la Joya ,General Teran Nuevo Leon Mexico.
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